Ms SWANSON (Paterson) (15:53): It's somewhat galling to sit here and listen to the member for Ryan talk about the ability of the government to manage Australians' money and taxpayers' money when, indeed, it will be taxpayers' money that pays out the class action that this government will have to foot to these people who have been so illegally treated by their own government. As it would turn out, I've got a fair bit of experience in communities that haven't been treated well by their government and who've had to seek a class action to seek redress, but I can talk about that later.

It's also somewhat galling to sit here and listen during question time to the minister for human services—now there is an oxymoron!—talk about sensitivities around robodebt and cautioning the House about grave outcomes when we kept raising the possibilities of what was going on with real people who were coming to our offices. As the member for Cowan said, they were sitting with us and saying: 'I've got a debt from the government. I'm being strongarmed by debt collectors. This is such a terrible situation, and I just don't know how this happened. I didn't do this.' Well, do you know what? They didn't do it. They have been exonerated by the AAT. The fact is that law-abiding citizens were labelled by this government as 'rorters', 'fraudsters' and 'leaners', as I recall. You were going to 'sort them out'. You were going to make sure they paid their fair share. They wouldn't be rorting your wonderful system! Well, it seems as though the system wasn't quite as watertight as you thought.

It's quite interesting: robodebt does sound like something from a sci-fi. The member for Maribyrnong said, 'The government took a step to the left and then a hop to the right'. Well, let me assure you: this was the full horror show bearing out before all of us. It has become the stuff of nightmares, a grim reality that's seen debts raised against people who were informed it was their responsibility to prove the debt didn't exist. More often than not, they didn't even know it had been raised. The last time I checked, Australia was still a democracy and the premise that you are innocent until proven guilty was still something that our legal system relies upon. That didn't happen during this debacle. There was no consultation, there was no compassion, and, for many, there was nowhere to go.

When I saw that number—and, again, the member for Ryan stood there asking how we could conflate the deaths of 2,030 people with robodebt. That information was given during a Senate estimates committee. So, indeed, those links can be drawn. This scheme had a terrible impact on the lives of those 2,030 people but also on all of those others whose lives have been indelibly impacted by this callous disregard and lack of respect.

I find it so interesting that members on the other side stand there and say that they had the queues at Centrelink right down. Unfortunately, now, due to COVID, those queues are going to be right back up. I can tell you: some of those people have never queued for Centrelink in their lives and have never had to deal with a government department. Despite the minister's little jingle last sitting, when he said, 'Just give us a buzz; just give Centrelink a buzz,' I ask: who on earth has ever 'just given Centrelink a buzz' or tried to get onto myGov to try and do this? It's incredibly difficult, because you just can't get through. I bet those people who've joined those queues recently, who may be more adept, in some respects, and may be less tolerant—and some of them are less vulnerable—will not cop what this government gives out in relation to that. So it's just as well that the minister has finally realised the error of this program's ways. I note that mealy-mouthed, Fonzie excuse for an apology by the Prime Minister today. I saw that some news outfits are reporting that he's apologised. I tell you what: if that's an apology, he's got a long way to go on that.

It is indeed just so difficult when you meet people—and I just want to briefly shout out to Sandra and Larry, two people in my electorate. You know your stories. I'm not going to repeat them again in parliament, because I know how traumatic it was for you, but we've worked to help you redress that. This government needs to do the work to redress the terrible robodebt that it brought upon you.